What is your background in music ?

‘In 1991 I bought Jump, a second-hand record shop in Station Road, South Shields. Another shop called Excalibur moved in upstairs a few years later.

This was a ‘Head’ shop where the owner Roy was selling hippy style stuff, clothing, candles, ornaments, that sort of thing.

It was going well until the council started plans to demolish the buildings on Station Road, and as word got around the trade dropped off.

So, in 1998 I moved to Fowler Street with its higher rates and rent. But I also realised the entire record industry was changing with internet downloading, and soon vinyl albums and cd’s were slowly fizzled out.

Excalibur had closed down by now, and I had realised there was definitely a trade there. People coming into the shop asking can you get this, can you get that basically what Excalibur used to sell.

So, I changed to half records and cd’s, and half of what was a ‘Head’ shop. Then slowly phased out the records side of it to sell 100% head stuff’.

Shovelmouth at Alum House, South Shields 1998

Shovelmouth at Alum House, South Shields 1998

Where you playing in a band then ? ‘Yeah, I formed Shovelmouth in the mid ’90s and then a few years later I started booking bands at The Office pub in South Shields. Just as a favour really because I had so many contacts for various bands on the circuit.

I used to go and see a lot of bands around Tyneside and if I liked them then I wanted to get them on in Shields too. I was a big fan of live music, and still am.

The vast majority of pub bands are hobby-ests. You cannot make enough money playing pubs twice a week to make a living. It’s just pocket money for a lot of these bands, although often the gear they have on stage is worth thousands of pounds.

They are very proud and want to play through good quality equipment so if they get it stolen then it’s heart breaking. Guitars are different as they are pretty unique with serial numbers on, so they can turn up, whereas amps and other bits and pieces usually disappear into the ether’.

How did you progress to engineer live sound for bands ? 

‘I used to do Shovelmouths sound, and watching other bands you would pick up little tricks on how to get a better and bigger sound. Are the drums miked up? what’s the p.a. output? that sort of thing you know.

At first I was sort of playing at it really, nobody teaching me, all self-taught. But there was one moment when it clicked.

In the early 2000s Powerage the AC/DC tribute band had a gig booked for some bikers near Chopwell. They couldn’t get a p.a hired but they could bring a sound engineer. The guy was called Tony Smith from Crook who regularly did sound on the main stage at Stormin the Castle Bike Rally.

So I provided the p.a. mic’s and leads, he borrowed a mixing desk and done the sound on the night.

I tell ya my little p.a. sounded a million dollars that night. There was my ramshackle gear, and he has made it sound unbelievable! And that inspired me. Just spending one gig looking over his shoulder I learnt so much in that one night.

About six years back I hooked up with a friend Glenn Minnikin, who is an incredible tech head, a very bright lad. We eventually ditched the analogue gear and went digital, plus keep on adding to and improving the kind of light show that we can do.

It’s just snowballed from there, to doing sound and lights on a regular basis for numerous bands around the North East’.

Colin with Glenn Minnikin.

What type of venues do you work in ?

‘Well, we can tailor it down to pubs if needed, like Trimmers in South Shields, or up to a full-on spectacle if that’s what’s required. We’ve done many social clubs and some theatres as well.

To be honest the bigger venues have way more appeal to us. We can do more impressive lighting and the big rooms let the sound breathe’.

With pubs and clubs closing every day in the UK, have you seen a change in the venues and audiences ? ’

The pub-band scene isn’t as vibrant as it was perhaps 10 years ago for people my age, and the younger audiences aren’t really coming through at a pub level.

They’ll go to festivals to see major bands, but the support for original local live music at a grass-roots level is virtually non-existent unless they are family or friends of the band.

University towns or cities tend to be different. The important thing is the limited number of places they can play these days. But it’s the chicken or the egg isn’t it. Pubs don’t want to take the chance of paying money for a band and not enough people turning up.

Back when we were younger, we wanted to see why our mates were talking about this or that band, what the buzz was all about. We’d turn up and support them, but by the 2000’s it became affordable to have a home-studio computer software, and you didn’t need to be in a band to perform music.

Not needing to work with other musicians, just programming your own drum tracks, bass lines, the lot, …all by themselves’

Earlier this year I went to The Sage in Newcastle and saw Judie Tzuke who complained during the gig of a bad throat. I got to thinking how serious an illness has to be before cancellation ?

’Maybe she was feeling fragile. She’d still have wages to pay and other costs to cover, so she’d still want to do the gig. If you’re talking main players like lead guitarist or singer are so ill they can’t do the tour, they’d have to be bedridden to cancel.

Back in the ’80s bands were lucky to break even on ticket sales, so they made it up on the merchandise and record sales. Nowadays due to declining record and download sales, the ticket prices have escalated.

Bands do not want to cry off on a tour, that is their bread and butter now’.

Have you come across musicians who want to pull the gig ?

‘I know of singers who with the slightest cold are looking to pull the gig. It’s like hang on, this gig’s been booked months in advance, the rest of the band are fit and ready, just that the singer is not at full strength.

You not only let the band down, and the audience, but the pub might struggle to get another act on at short notice’. 

Do you think many backing tracks are used in live performances ?

’There are some name rock bands out there who will use backing tracks on the lead vocals. When the high notes come in the sound guy pushes the backing track up, likely recorded from a previous live show, but it helps him hit that high note.

Many years ago, it was rumoured that Journey had done that because the singer had trouble with his throat and they didn’t want to cancel any dates.

When recording an album in the studio, they know they have to get it right because that album is going to be listened to over and over again, and any bum notes are going to stick out like a sore thumb.

But when it comes to live performance it’s experienced in the moment. If something is played a bit faster really who cares, it’s a live vibe, it’s a buzz. Yet for live albums? I’m not sure about them, it’s “that doesn’t sound so good let’s go in the studio and overdub it” ha-ha’. 

Colin at Stormin’ the Castle Bike Rally.

You also compere at the Stormin’ the Castle Bike Rally….

’Yeah, I just realised it’s been 15 years now. I’d previously played there in 2000 and 2002 with Shovelmouth. I was asked to come onboard and help with compering in 2004 because their guy couldn’t do it one night, and I’ve done the job ever since’. 

Any stand-out moments from there ?

’I’ve loved every year. There’s always great moments, great bands. Local bands who play always bring their A-game. Name bands play great shows as well.

Maybe a stand-out moment was watching Pete Way performing with UFO absolutely plastered. As the gig went on his legs were getting more and more buckled. At the end of the show the band were laughing as he went off stage as they were so used to it.

The Quireboys just played a great show this year, and there was Spike (vocals) another man who likes a good sup, a very affable drunk, loveable, likeable guy but you’re thinking, will he last through the gig?

As he staggers up the steps with uncertainty to get on stage, you’re thinking this is looking dodgy. Then he gets on stage and click he’s into show mode! Throwing the mic stand up in the air, catching it, singing to the audience, brilliant vocals, so much charisma’.

In the last 10 years there has been a number of successful entertainers and comedians that have come from this area. Can you pinpoint the reason why ?

‘Certain places have had that, Liverpool in the ’80s with Echo & the Bunnymen, Lightning Seeds, Frankie Goes to Hollywood. Coventry with the Two Tone, Ska scene. They seem to have musical vibes about them.

Obviously South Shields is not on the same level, but undoubtedly there is some talent here.

There have always been incidents like when many punk bands started because they saw The Sex Pistols, or a number of rock bands formed because they saw Jimi Hendrix. Live entertainment has always been big in this town, even with the theatre, if people go to see it then perhaps they are inspired to then go and do it themselves.

Maybe it’s a snowball effect of the more there is, the more people get inspired by it. But back to your question of why South Shields ? Really I couldn’t pinpoint one thing. Maybe there’s something in the water ha-ha’.

Shovelmouth at the Ampitheatre, South Shields June 2012.

What does music mean to you ?

‘It’s a passion, it always has been. I started off being a music fan, watching bands and buying the albums. Then playing in bands and started booking bands.

I enjoyed being part of setting-up live music up to entertain others and now it’s evolved to the point where I’d rather be behind the scenes doing sound and lighting, enhancing the bands’ performance.

I get a buzz out of knowing I can make a good band shine a bit brighter. My satisfaction is knowing I played my part in that. When you see the audience loving the show that’s great. Yeah, it’s my passion’. 

Interview by Gary Alikivi    September 2018.

Don’t forget to check out the ALIKIVI You Tube channel.

What have you been doing since last year’s interview ?

‘Vicky Price and I took about five months to put together an old fashioned ’60s show band, The Blue Flamingos. We had all the backdrop’s made and all the props to make it look really good.

The first half of the show was British ’60s and the second half was all American ’60s. But ’60s song’s only last two minutes so by the time we had committed ourselves we thought we’d have to do 40 songs haha.

So, we got a video up on the back wall and do a bit of patter cos it was a two-hour show. We decided to go out of the way and try it somewhere new, so we looked at The Westovian Theatre in South Shields.

First night sold, so added the second night. People were singing along, yeah went really well’.

How did the gig at Westovians come about because it’s not known as a music theatre ?

‘That’s right I believe it was the first music show promoted there. It’s a small theatre that holds 260 and at first I was thinking of putting a rock show on there but I thought this ’60s show would be better suited.

So, we went down and paid the booking fee for 27th and 28th July. I was surprised how well it went down so we are taking it to The Phoenix Theatre in Blyth then hopefully moving it around the country.

We are in the process of doing that now ourselves rather than using agencies although Steve Lloyd Promotions, a big national agency have just picked us up. He said he can get us on festivals with bands like Gerry and the Pacemakers, Amen Corner and The Merseybeats. I said yeah go ahead and do it.

So he’s working on creating some national links for gig’s next year.

We are a revue band we aren’t a tribute band like a Bobby Vee or Billy Fury, although we sing those songs we aren’t trying to copy.

I still have the Howard Baker Band working with some really good musicians so really busy. We’re all older and wiser than before’. 

Can you remember any gigs when you weren’t older and wiser ?

’We – Warbeck – were on part of a tour with Argent in the early ’70s. I remember playing at The Locarno in Sunderland and Argent had just brought out their single Hold Your Head Up High.

I was watching them from the side of the stage waiting for this song, they eventually played it and it went on for about 20 minutes. Talking about stretching out the favourite haha.

I talked to him afterwards he was a really nice guy I think he wrote I Surrender which Rainbow recorded also God Gave Rock n Roll to You a Kiss number so yeah, he wrote a good few tunes.

When I was in Warbeck we were playing at the Marquee in London and were supporting a band called Upp. It was a project that Jeff Beck had put together. They were a sort of rock fusion, great sound – out of this world.

He came in the dressing room, he is only a small, slim guy, he said to me I like your vocals, good band, keep at it. I don’t remember much from then but that was good of him to say that’. 

What do you think about the current covers and tribute bands scene ?

‘I played support to a famous singer’s son – I won’t name him. But he sung in the style of his father, and he was so bad. You sort of recognise the songs, but they weren’t anywhere near his father – and he was probably on a couple of grand.

At that point I was thinking I must be doing something wrong’.

Is that the fault of the agent pushing them out when he should have more control over the quality ?

’Of course, but if your father is that famous it definitely has more clout. Karaoke singers might be good for a couple of songs but the agent tells them they have to do two sets at 45 minutes each. They say ’What I only know three songs’.

Some of them get out to the club’s and die on their arses.

Problem is some agents don’t go and watch them beforehand. I’ve had a few on with me and the agent say’s ‘What were they like Howard ?’

I’m like ‘Don’t go there with me mate, I don’t want to get loaded up telling you about someone. Get out there and find out for yourself’.

One girl was so bad she came off stage and said to us ‘I’m thinking off doing cruises you know’. Somebody under their breath said ‘Aye, Titanic’ haha’.

One night at The Latino in Sunderland a singer was on before us and some of the audience had been putting beer mats on the stage, with messages on.

The singer thought they’d say ‘We love’ ‘You’re great’ and ‘Can you do this song’ all that you know.

Well when it was our slot, I was in Warbeck then, I picked up some of the beer mats and they had written ‘Get off, you’re rubbish’ and ‘Don’t come back’ and a few others with shall we say choice language.

I remember doing a show with Tom Jones and his band The Squires, also Bobby Thompson now these people were real pro’s and you could understand why they were at the top of their game. It’s their calling in life, it’s their gift’. 

How much work do you put into performing ?

‘In my repertoire I’ve got about four and a half hours’ worth of songs. In my head I can possibly remember 200 songs.

I done a lot of writing with Warbeck, Nightwalker, and for the cd I put out in 2016 The Paris Files I done a lot. The single off that was number one in the Reverbnation European chart, off and on for 44 weeks and the album got to number three.

I got an email from a band called Red Cadillac in Kentucky wanting me to go over their and play. Well that’s difficult to do that because at the time I had 22 shows in 29 days in the UK.

It would be great to go over there, but I didn’t want to drop the other musicians in the shit. They would have lost 22 days of wages which adds up to a lot of money. Yes, it’s a full-time job we gotta pay the bills’.  

Do you find it hard to switch off and rest your voice ?

‘It’s hard to do that. I’m lucky that I sing in three or four keys. So if I have a problem I can always change, if any the first thing that goes is my bottom end. My middle and top are no problem’. 

Is charity work something you do ?

’Not for the Cancer charities and the big one’s because they get a lot of donations and special nights put on for them, so I stick more local like Feline Friends who are struggling so need more help.

The owner Lynn works hard on it and she has a full-time job. It’s a really good cause’.

When do you have a holiday ?

‘My wife, God bless her. I’d booked to go to London cos my son lives there. I’d booked four days. We saw a couple of shows went for a few meals, but I get it in little bursts like that. I play a few weeks in Tenerife.

When I was recording in Paris, she’d be there for a few days but it’s no fun for her as I’m working. But she goes out with (producer) Eric’s wife so that’s ok but normally for holidays I have to book a year ahead.

Last real holiday seven days it was, we were in New York and went to this club, I ended up singing with the band haha’.

What type of artists come from the North East ?

‘Well you’ve had people like Marcus Brown keyboard player with Madonna, then the like’s of Sting, Johnna (Brian Johnson), Coverdale, Rodgers… it’s a bit like in the United States the North is more supressed than everywhere else, you know doom and gloom. Detroit and Bruce Springsteen the places that have a bit depression bring out the best in singers.

I remember going through Middlesbrough in the ’70s and you ended up with a film of red dust on the car from the chimneys in the chemical works. Hartlepool was similar, but now them places are picking up.

You had people like Chubby Brown, very controversial comedian lot of people didn’t like what he was doing, but it was a way out for him’.

Are you saying that they fight harder ?

‘Yes definitely, from here the rock bands like Raven fought like hell to get out and do something. Some sort of made it. Bands like Avenger look back and say at least I tried.

I had a band Nightwalker in the ’90s with Ted Hunter on guitar, Shaun Taylor on drums we done a few gigs in France we were a cracking band, great musicians again from the North.

The like’s of Ditchy (Dave Ditchburn) should of got further, I heard some of his original stuff – really good. Pete Barkley from Lucas Tyson, bands like Cirkus were all great players. They all had deals but it just fizzled out for one thing or another.

I could cry that some of these didn’t get the right platform. We – Warbeck -were in there, in the veins of the Whitesnakes who we supported, but it was down to managements screwing the whole thing up’. 

With the number of pubs and clubs closing down where can you see the work coming from ?

‘Basically, with the work the strong will survive. The good acts will always work. The work is really tight, and the good acts are moving further afield. You’ve got to be more diverse.

I do a full Irish show, a full swing show, full out and out rock, ’60s and ’70s and a ballad show. Luckily I saw that 15 year ago and that’s when I started diversing.

It takes a couple of years to learn those type of shows, to bed it down. So if you’ve only one type of show your pigeon holed.

Funny I done a solo show not long ago in Northumbria University and it was a ’60s night. 800 students came dressed in their tank tops, loons and wigs. Kids of 18-19 year old coming up to me asking for Herman’s Hermitts or Wayne Fontana haha’.  

How important is image ? ’

Style and image are very important. The main difference now is being either a great singer or a great singer and good showman. You’ve got to make the effort. If I go on it’s shirt, waistcoat depending on the show sometimes a suit.

Some people come into the club, set the gear up and go straight on stage. As a punter you should expect something a bit different from the artist, not the guy offf the street.

I remember an agent called Andy Green I was doing the Jubilee Club for him, we were in a trio called Riff Raff. We were doing a 10 night run for him. Well Andy had been a Highland Guard or something, big strapping 6 foot 2 guy. He also used to put Wrestling events on.

Anyway this Welsh girl came in, we were all set up she was going on first and Andy said on the mic ‘Ladies and gentlemen put your hands together for this young girl from Wales.’ Then it was ‘whoa hold on, hold on get off and get yersel dressed you’ve had that on since you’ve got here’.

While the audience waited she had to change her dress and that’s what Andy was like. He only wanted really smart looking acts that looked the part because they are up on stage performing for the audience. And that’s what it should be’.

Do you listen to current music and how do you think the internet has affected music ?

‘No not really doesn’t really impress. Sam Smith, Ed Sheeran…couldn’t go and pay to see those guys.

I know old school people who like their vinyl or cd’s because they haven’t a clue about downloading. Some bands are limited if they only release downloads but their expense is much smaller not having to make the product but advertising still costs. You can lose a lot more on vinyl or cd than you can on download.

There is millions of songs out there on You Tube and young bands can use it as a calling card. The Amazons, Spotify’s, You Tubes are always making money and you might not – but that’s business’. 

Interview by Gary Alikivi 2018

Recommended:

Trevor Sewell, Still Got the Blues, 21st June 2017.

Howard Baker, Howards Way, 17th August 2017.

John Verity, (ARGENT): Blue to His Soul 7th November 2017.

Dave Ditchburn, Man for All Seasons 1st February 2018.

BECKETT , Music Matters, 9th April 2018.

How important are the arts in the North East ?

’Times have changed and opportunities in the Arts seem to have become more limited. The traditional route for actors, via drama school, now favours only those whose families can afford the expense of London based education.

As a result, far less working-class actors are breaking through.

Funding for theatre in education is almost non-existent and schools are encouraged to undervalue drama and music in the mainstream. Sad times in my opinion as young people need access to the arts just as much as they need access to health and fitness.

Without an outlet for our creativity, we stifle our imaginations and become frustrated robots’.

How did you get interested in music ?

‘The first year of my life, 1963, was spent in Gateshead but I always regard myself as a ‘Jarra lad’ because the next 17 formative years were spent in Jarrow. I was surrounded by music.

My dad who had served his time at Reyrolles and become a Pattern Maker (similar to a Draughtsman), was an accomplished singer, composer and musician.

During my early childhood, I would often wake to hear him return from night shift and start playing guitar, singing softly, sometimes Vincent by Donovan or one of his own compositions.

It may seem odd, but I looked forward to being woken in the middle of the night to hear this comforting sound. I don’t even know if he realised that I could hear him.

My dad was restless and would soon leave his secure and reasonably well-paid job at Reyrolles and take the risky step of turning professional, performing in a thriving North East, working men’s club scene.

The culture of most catholic families in Jarrow was for children to perform musical party pieces at social gatherings. My younger brother, Anthony, and I would sing songs my dad had written at such events, often performing the wrong lyrics accidentally.

I recall one occasion with everyone stifling their laughter in an attempt to protect our feelings when we sang the wrong word; instead of ‘parting’, we sang ‘farting’. We were only 5 or 6 years old. So my first and major musical influence was and still is, my dad, Michael’.

Who were you listening to ?

‘As a kid, there were remnants of the ’40s and ’50s hanging around like the Inkspots who were sentimental but tongue in cheek at the same time. I still like to listen to them.

Moving from the ’50s to ’60s, lots of rock ‘n roll, particularly Elvis, Buddy Holly, Eddy Cochrane and Roy Orbison. The Beatles were brilliant, particularly John Lennon.

I also felt a buzz listening to Hendrix, Free and The Doors. The ’70s were such a clash of styles. There was all that funk from the States, The Jacksons fronted by the remarkably talented Michael Jackson, the squeaky clean, coiffured Osmond’s, the second manufactured boy band after the Monkees, the Bay City Rollers etc.

Prog rock and YES with Rick Wakeman on keys, first experienced on the Old Grey Whistle Test on BBC2 blew me away.

In the mid ’70s I heard Steely Dan for the first time and loved the albums, Can’t Buy a Thrill and the Royal Scam. Then there was Bowie!! I loved everything he did’. 

When did you play your first gigs ?

‘My first instrument was piano. I started lessons at the age of 6. I really wanted to be a drummer but my brother got the kit as he didn’t like piano lessons.

Ironically, he still ended up a better keyboard player than me! I play guitar and bass too but rarely these days.

When I was 17, I formed a band with my best mate at school, Dave Morton called Private Collection. We played school concerts and anywhere that would have us. Good times.

Between the age 10-18, I played the clubs with my dad and brother in Mike Mason and the Little People. You might wonder why the surname changed from McNally in the stage name.

Well, we toured Scotland every summer and played a lot of ‘Orange’ clubs. My dad had been advised by an agent, years before, to play safe with a name that wouldn’t arouse suspicions about our Irish heritage.

We toured as a headline act at the same time as Cannon and Ball, The Krankies and Little and Large haha!

1977 and the Sex Pistols changed everything. Popular music was being punched full in the face. Bands like the Clash, Undertones and Buzzcocks hugely impacted on young people, encouraging them to pick up an instrument and thrash it loud and hard with attitude.

Although I was performing what could be described as ‘cabaret’, this music and the emotion behind it really appealed to me. I think I found a lot of the mainstream music unctuous and superficial. Punk meant revolution and it was exciting!’

Who are you listening to now ? 

’I have continued to have an eclectic taste in music. I love classical music when I am chilling, jazz sometimes when I am travelling and hearing some of my son, Luc McNally’s Scottish Folk music.

I like the Killers, Arctic Monkeys and Vampire Weekend introduced to me by my daughter Ellen.

Michael with Bob Smeaton on set of the 1983 film ‘Accounts’.

How did you get into acting ?

‘I left the family show at 18 to study. I started a Law degree in Newcastle. My plan was to be a solicitor but play in a band at the same time.

Having successfully completed my first year in 1983, I auditioned and was cast in a leading role for a Film on Four called Accounts, written by Michael Wilcox. Bob Smeaton and I played brothers in this beautifully written piece set in the Scottish Borders.

Bob has achieved some remarkable things in his career including Emmy awards for producing music documentaries. I took a sabbatical for a year to make the film but never returned to my studies.

Once the film was shown and well received, I was offered representation by London agents. I made a huge decision and moved to the Capital’.

Early scene in Coronation Street.

‘I managed to survive a steep learning curve and found work in television and theatre. My first repertory experience was as the narrator in a musical version of The Piper of Hamelin at Liverpool Playhouse.

Next was Andy Capp at Newcastle Playhouse in ’85, and work at Royal Court and Royal Shakespeare Company. As soon as I finished a job there were always opportunities for the next.

Whilst playing Jacky Milburn in Wor Jacky at Newcastle Playhouse in 1989, I was invited to Tyne Tees TV to discuss a series which required a presenter. As a result, I got my first presenting job in a show called McNally.

I made 13 programmes and had a fantastic time being paid to do what I enjoyed most, meeting interesting people and having adventures’.

What does music mean to you ?

‘Music is an escape, a freedom from whatever ties us down. It can be the medicine we require to soothe or the motivation to move. Without it we are monotone, bland and sad’. 

What are you up to now ?

’Musically, I am playing keyboards in local band, The Moobs! We have a large following in the region and play songs that get crowds excited and on their feet.

Watch out for ‘The Running Show‘, which I will be presenting with Tony ‘The Fridge’ and others, coming soon!’ 

On stage with The Moobs.

Interview by Gary Alikivi August 2018